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 Post subject: Unlisted leave the 'joyriders' alone...daleel
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:41 am
Posts: 189
aight guys, here is a sista that has your back. seems as though unllisted and the crew do not respect it when you say that you are following the way of the salaf in marriage and divorce, so i have a contempory fatawa that should help justify your actions.

Majmu Fatawa wa Maqalat Mutanawwi'ah
ON MARRIAGE WITH THE INTENT OF DIVORCE

(1990, 4:29-30 by Sheikh Abdulaziz bin Baz)

Question:I heard one of your fatawa on audiocassette in which you permitted marriages in foreign countries where the man marries with the intent of divorcing his wife after the termination of his employment or student visa. What, then, is the difference between this type of marriage and an invalid temporary marriage? What should he do if his wife bears him a daughter? Should he abandon her in a foreign country with her divorced mother? I am in need of clarification.

Fatwa:Yes, the Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and the Issuing of Fatawم, over which I preside, has issued a fatwa permitting a marriage entered into with the intent of divorce as long as this intention remains concealed between the groom and his Lord.

If he married in a foreign country with the undisclosed intent of divorcing his wife upon the completion of his studies or employment, he is not liable according to the majority of scholars. Furthermore, such an intention is not a pre-condition in marriage [as in the case of temporary marriages], and should remain between him and his Lord.

As for the distinction between this type of marriage and temporary marriages, which are unlawful, the latter stipulates an agreed upon period of time, like a month or two, or a year or two. When this period elapses, the marriage becomes nullified. This is an invalid temporary marriage. There is no liability on one who gets married according to the Sunnah of God and His Messenger while harboring the intention of divorcing upon the lapse of his stay in a foreign country. In the same vein, his intention might change as it was never publicized, nor is it a condition for marriage. Rather, it is between him and God and, therefore, he is not at fault. This type of marriage is a means of preserving him from fornication and lasciviousness. The majority of scholars maintain this position, as related by the author of al-Mughni, Muwaffiq al-Din b. Qudamah, may God bless him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 6:01 am
Posts: 332
As-Salaamu alaykum
And Shaykh 'Uthaymeen said: just because it is not mutah does not mean it is not haraam
Quote:
Questions Related to Marriage
soon as the period finishes, the two are separated whether they still want that or not. In this case, though, it could be the case that he desires his wife and decides to remain with her. This is one of the opinions held by Shaikh al-Islam ibn Taimiya.
In my opinion, such a marriage is not muta since it does not meet the definition of muta. However, it is still forbidden since it is a type of deception of the wife and her family. The Prophet has forbidden deception and mendacity. If the woman knew that the man only intends to be married with her for that specific time, she would not agree to the marriage nor would her family. In the same way, he would not be pleased to marry his daughter to a man who intends to divorce her when he has fulfilled his needs from her. How can he be pleased with doing to others what he would not be pleased to have done to himself? This goes against the foundations of faith. The Prophet has said
"None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself."
I have also heard that this opinion has led some people to do something that none of the scholars would be in agreement with. That is, some people travel to such lands with the sole purpose of performing such a marriage and then they return to their countries. This is also a greatly forbidden act. Therefore, one must close the door that leads to such a possible practice. Furthermore, the act contains deception and cheating. And it opens a very dangerous door since people, in general, are ignorant and most of the people's desires will not keep them from violating what Allah has prohibited. too
shaikh ibn Uthaimm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:41 am
Posts: 189
this is an excellent example of ikhtilaf.

i once had a saudi man ask my dh to have me find him a wife in the states. i told him all the women i knew were black, divorced, and with kids. now you know that is usually a big no thank you for most saudis, but this man did not care. he really did not care about anything. at the time i was like alhamduillah a brother that will marry some of our 'hard to marry' sisters. qadr allah, we never found him anybody but in hindsight and knowing the fatawa of the standing committee, and knowing personally of many saudis doing just that...then i am glad i did not help in making such a match.


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 Post subject: Unlissted leave the 'joyriders'...daleel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:10 am 
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 8:16 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Riyadh
As-salaamu alaykum,

This is very important, especially in the context of the response from the other website entitled the "Shayateen Kubuthaa."

Initially though, it appears that the intent of the 'unlissted' brothers (who i belive are called ismael, naem, rasheed and esa of Philadelphia) in the case of one individual were intending to advise people not to marry him due to his open boasting of such affairs and his frequent marrying and divorcing.

In this case also, the individual in question married Saudi women and this is quite well known, and from what is gathered from the 'unlissted' brothers, who should just use their real names as it can throw doubt on such an important matter, this was their aim in that particular post.

But the issue is now becoming very concerning, I am currently in Riyadh so such a matter should be referred to the scholars. Considering that in this particular case the question is "Can a man who is known for marrying and divorcing women frequently, and has even included Saudi women in his agenda, and has made open boasts of his Fahshaa to many other Muslims, be warned against for such a reputation?"

Some former students of Shaykh Bin Baaz (raheemahullaah) are my neighbours and I have a rough idea of what their answer will be on this.

The 'Shayateen Khubuthaa' issue, was in the context of 'spreading the sins' which in this case should land at the feet of the one who allegedly (again clear daleel from unlissted for this is better) made this open brag. Such as the boasting about the "Summer of 2003" and other open boasting.

There have been other brothers from Philadelphia community who have corroborated this on this forum and the fact this particular individual has been ostracised in his area explains a lot.

The other website also demonstrated the double standards. Such as some of their own followers spreading of the Abu Usaamah issue last year; the Musa Richradsn issue with Ibraheem Smith; not to mention their own mistakes with how they dealt with the Salafees of Luton, London and many other areas of the UK and their silence on that. Only for them to refute this website for allegedly doing the same?!

Furthermore, what about Aboo Uways' extraordinary tape on Abu Usaamah?! They pick and choose as they please, but it looks like their one-sided use of the scholars haso come to an end, inshaa'Allaah.

'Abdul-Haq ibn Kofi Addae ibn Kwesi ibn al-Ashanti


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 Post subject: Unlissted leave the 'joyriders' daleel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 8:16 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Riyadh
Jazak Allaahu khayran Aboo Moosaa!

Abdul-Haq ibn Kofi


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 Post subject: Unlissted leave the 'joyriders' issue...daleel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 8:16 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Riyadh
The scholars have listed 6 cases when backbiting is permissible,

The 4th one that Imam An Nawawee mentions in Al Adhkaar is;

"Warning and Advising the Muslims against Evil - There are several perspectives to this, of which one is: Declaring someone unreliable in the field of narrating hadeeth and giving testimony. This is permissible to do, according to the Ijmaa' (consensus of the Muslim scholars). Rather, it becomes obligatory due to its necessity. Another case is WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL DESIRES TO ENTER INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITH ANOTHER PERSON EITHER THROUGH MARRIAGE, business, the consignment of his property, the consigning of something to him or any other of the daily affairs. It is obligatory on you to mention to that individual what you know about the person he wants to get involved with, with the intention of advising him.

If your objective can be achieved by simply saying: "It is not correct for you to engage with him in business transactions” or “in a relationship through marriage" or by saying: "You should not do this" or anything similar to that, then adding more to this, such as by mentioning his bad characteristics is not permissible. And if the objective cannot be reached, except by specifically explaining that person’s condition to him, then you may mention that to him in detail"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:41 am 
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Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:16 am
Posts: 2774
Location: France
salam aleykum

I just want to mention that saying of some scholars o even majority has never been a shar'i dalil.

That is why on talaq said three times in one occasion, ahle hadeeth genarally take the position of ibn taymiyah which opposes fouf madhab

And I did not see any dalil in shaykh Ibn Baz's speech, while ibn Utheymeen mentions some about decievment, that the Prophet saw forbade deciet.

So it is upn every sunni to take the dalil

Allah knows best


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