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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:12 am 
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Lets Be Reasonable your answer is unsatisfactory and no one answered the second part.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:44 am 
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Aboo Rumaysah wrote:
Lets Be Reasonable your answer is unsatisfactory and no one answered the second part.


Tell me one thing, when it is said that Shaikh Rabee is the Imam of Jarh wa-tadeel, what special quality is being attributed to him in which he has excellence over the other scholars?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:23 am 
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Let's put it this way, make it nice and simple.

When the Messenger of Allah stated that Khaalid bin Waalid is the Sword of Allaah, were Abu Bakr, Uthmaan, Umar and Alee not present? So, with this in mind Shaykh Usaamah Al Qoosee said Khaalid is from the Sword of Swords of Allah.

When the Messenger of Allah sallalahu alayhi wasallama said I shall give this flag to a person who loves Allah and His Messenger and they love him and he give it to Alee bin Abee Taalib, were Abu Bakr and Umar not present and did Umar not say only that day did he want the leadership?

Pure and simple, Shaykh Rabee' is not THE Imam of Jarh wat Ta'deel rather he is A Imam from the Aimmah of Jarh wat Tad'eel of our times like Shaykh Usaamah explained.

As for Shaykh Ghuydaan not recognising Shaykh Rabee' well if the likes of 'Allammah Albaanee and 'Uthaymeen have recognised you then who cares if others dont?

If you dont know the virtues of Shaykh Rabee' perhaps you should ask the lajnah the likes of the Mufti Aal Shaykh and Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan.......

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:48 am 
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Quote:
rather he is A Imam from the Aimmah of Jarh wat Tad'eel


could you explain what this means? Shaikh Rabee can be appropriately described as one of the Imams of Jarh wat Tad'eel because .... ????


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:53 am 
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Why didn't you challenge Shaykh Albaanee when he said Shaykh Rabee is from the flag bearers of Jarh wat Tad'eel??

Since Shaykh Albaanee is not alive anymore why dont you go and ask Shaykh Abdul Muhsin what is meant by 'Allamah Albaanee's statement?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Shaikh 'Abdul Muhsin al-Abbad (hafidhahullah) also said in the same answer from which a quote is posted above:

Quote:
As for the contemporary people and what is occurring in recent times, then it is in reality, a Jarh wa-Tadeel which is unheard of until recently, that is to engage in Jarh wa-Tadeel and then those engaged in this Ilm do Jarh wa-Tadeel which in most cases is done on an individual in whom a fault (mistake) is found, who is then criticized, warned against, and this in reality is not a correct way.


So in reality there is no contradiction between what Shaikh Ghudayaan and Shaikh 'Abdul Muhsin al-Abbad said - may Allah preserve them both.

The fact that Shaikh Ghudayaan being a greater scholar than Shaikh Rabee' and whilst knowing what Shaikh Albani (rahimahullah) said, denied Shaikh Rabee's being flag-carrier of Jarh wa Ta'deel is significant.

Also on this forum elsewhere Shaikh Saalih al Fawzan is also quoted as denying Shaikh Rabee is the flag-carrier of Jarh wa Ta'deel and also on being told "but Shaikh Albani said it...." we don't do taqleed of anyone.

Anyway Shaikh Rabee' is a scholar in his own right, and whether flag-carrier of Jarh wa Ta'deel or not - he has done service for the cause of the sunnah. Every scholar makes mistakes but we preserve the honour and status of the scholars of ahlussunnah even when disagreeing unlike the ghulat.

Quote:
As for Shaykh Ghuydaan not recognising Shaykh Rabee' well if the likes of 'Allammah Albaanee and 'Uthaymeen have recognised you then who cares if others dont?

If you dont know the virtues of Shaykh Rabee' perhaps you should ask the lajnah the likes of the Mufti Aal Shaykh and Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan.......


Ya akhi Aboo Rumaysah I was a bit uncomfortable reading the above because:
1 - In the first paragraph you put just "shaikh" for Shaikh Ghudayaan but 'Allamah for Shaikhs Albani and Uthaimeen.
2 - In the 2nd paragraph you mention the Lajnah and then the "likes" of the Mufti and Shaikh Fawzan as if Shaikh Ghudayan is separate from them.

Akhi Shaikh Ghudayan is without doubt one of the Kibaar, with recognition from the scholars of our time.

You said ask the scholars on the Lajnah - but he himself is a scholar on the Lajnah since 1980 (when we were probably in nappies).

He is older than the current Mufti Shaikh 'Abdul 'Azeez Aal Shaikh, who was appointed to the Lajnah in 1986.

He is also on the Council of Senior Scholars.

It isn't right to put make a difference in people's eyes between him and the other scholars on the Lajnah.

Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Abdur-Rahmaan Aal Ghudayyaan
*Please appropriately reference this biography to: www. fatwa -online .com, thankyou!*
He was born in 1345 A.H./1934 C.E. in the city of az-Zulfee.

He studied the basics of reading and writing, when young, with 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Abdul-'Azeez as-Suhaymee, and 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Abdur-Rahmaan al-Ghayth, and Faalih ar-Roomee. He also studied the basics of fiqh, tawheed, Arabic grammar and faraa.id with Hamdaan Ibn Ahmad al-Baatil. He then travelled to Riyadh in 1363 A.H./1952 C.E., and in 1366 A.H./1955 C.E. he enrolled into al-Madrasah as-Sa'oodiyyah al-Ibtidaa.iyyah (previously known as Madrasatul-Aytaam) and graduated from there in 1368 A.H./1957 C.E.

He was then appointed a teacher in al-Madrasah al-'Azeeziyyah, and in 1371 A.H./1960 C.E. he enrolled into the Educational Institute. During this period he studied with Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Ibraaheem Aal ash-Shaykh. He also studied fiqh with Shaykh Sa'ood Ibn Rashood who was the (grand) judge of Riyadh, and tawheed with Shaykh Ibraaheem Ibn Sulaymaan, and Arabic grammar and faraa.id with Shaykh 'Abdul-Lateef Ibn Ibraaheem. He then continued his studies until he graduated from the Faculty of Sharee'ah in 1372 A.H./1961 C.E.

He was then appointed head of one of the courts, and then later transferred to teaching at the Educational Institute in 1378 A.H./1967 C.E. In 1380 A.H./1969 C.E. he was then appointed a teacher at the Faculty of Sharee'ah, and in 1386 A.H./1975 C.E. he was transferred to passing fatwa at the Daar al-Iftaa.

In 1391 A.H./1980 C.E. he was appointed a member of The Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa in addition to member of the Council of Senior Scholars.

He studied with a number of scholars in differing fields, and from amongst the well-known (in addition to those who have preceded) are:
Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn 'Abdullaah Ibn Baaz (rahima-hullaah) with whom he studied fiqh;
Shaykh 'Abdullaah al-Khulayfee with whom he also studied fiqh;
Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Rasheed with whom he studied fiqh, tawheed and faraa.id;
Shaykh Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeetee with whom he studied usool al-fiqh, sciences of the Qur.aan, and tafseer;
Shaykh 'Abdur-Rahmaan al-Afreeqee with whom he studied mustalah and hadeeth;
Shaykh 'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee;
'Abdul-Fattaah Qaaree al-Bukhaaree with whom he studied the Qur.aan in the recitation of Hafs 'an 'Aasim, to which the chain of transmission reaches the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).

In addition to what has preceded of his work, from 1389 A.H./1978 C.E. to date he has been a teacher of fiqh, usool al-fiqh, al-qawaa.id al-fiqhiyyah, mustalah and hadeeth, tafseer and it's sciences and 'aqeedah.

He has also been teaching fiqh in organised gatherings/lessons most days of the week, according to his schedule of many duties, after maghrib and after 'Ishaa. Sometimes he will teach after fajr and also after 'asr.

From 1395 A.H./1984 C.E., in addition to his work with The Permanent Committee, he gave lessons to students of knowledge in higher studies at the University of Imaam Muhammad and the Faculty of Sharee'ah in fiqh, usool al-fiqh, al-qawaa.id al-fiqhiyyah. He was also involved in supervising a number of theses at the Masters degree and Doctorate level, whilst also taking part in the (university) committee discussing theses. During this period, many students studied with him.

When Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ibn Humayd died in 1402 A.H./1991 C.E., he was undertook to giving fatwa on the radio programme "Noorun 'alad-Darb".

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Quote:
I have heard many brothers stating that Shaykh Allamah Al Albaanee declaring Shaykh Rabee' as the flag bearer of Jarh wat Ta'deel of our times. Is this statement false???


I did not realize that this was a rhetoric question, and you were just looking for someone to argue with, as it appears in your replies.

Quote:
As for Shaykh Ghuydaan not recognising Shaykh Rabee' well if the likes of 'Allammah Albaanee and 'Uthaymeen have recognised you then who cares if others dont?


Quote:
If you dont know the virtues of Shaykh Rabee' perhaps you should ask the lajnah the likes of the Mufti Aal Shaykh and Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan.......


Quote:
Since Shaykh Albaanee is not alive anymore why dont you go and ask Shaykh Abdul Muhsin what is meant by 'Allamah Albaanee's statement?


Well, someone did ask the question to a major scholar, Shaykh Abdullaah Al-Ghudyaan, who is of the caliber of Shaykh Abdul Muhsin and Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan, and you already read what he had to say.

There is no contradiction between what Shaykh Abdullaah Al-Ghudyaan said with regards to Jarh wa Tadeel being in the books and what sheikh Abdul Muhsin said, because this discussion nowadays that involves people testifying about statements and individuals is best suited for the courts. Just go back and read the statements, both the scholars are saying that what is perceived as Jarh wa –Tadeel today, especially by people from sheikh Rabee's group, is not Jarh wa-Tadeel.

This is why I asked you the simple question, what do you mean by calling someone Imam of Jarh wa-Tadeel.

According to Shaikh Rabee and his group, this means that Shaikh Rabee is an expert about groups and individuals, and his assessment about them should not be rejected. So much so that Al-Albaani praised sheikh Rabee as the flag bearer of jarh wa-tadeel.

But sheikh al-Albaani (rahimahullah) did not live to witness what was to take place after him, and the much abuse and misapplication of the praise. And I quoted sheikh Al-Albaani to show you his severe rejection of the way of the people who indulge excessively in ‘such person said such’.

Furthermore, sheikh Rabee made GREAT BLUNDERS in assessing individuals who were so close to him i.e. Faaleh and Fawzee. So when sheikh Rabee criticizes someone or declares them an innovator, we need not necessary take it as an absolute fact.

This is the crux of the matter. As for the other services to the deen that sheikh Rabee has accomplished, no one is rejecting them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:13 am 
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Rather you are the one arguing and making up things. Its a waste of time seeking clarification. Rather I will let the other readers decide what is what. As for me I can respond to many points you have raised but it wont benefit me or you.

The thread is called "Shaykh Rabee' is not THE imam of Jarh wat Tad'eel" I couldn't care less if he was a scholar or not or an Imam of Jarh wat Tad'eel. My real question is why didn't the other kibaar of our times correct Shaykh Albaanee? I wont be carrying on answering anything in this thread as far as I am concerned the responses have been unsatisfactory.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:54 am 
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Aboo Rumaysah wrote:
My real question is why didn't the other kibaar of our times correct Shaykh Albaanee?


One of the Kibaar did clarify as the two brothers mentioned. Have you been reading anything?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:15 pm 
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In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious the Most Merciful

Baarakallah feekum

Actually my dear brothers you have failed to translate the entire speech of Shiekh Abdul Muhsin he said after mentioning that Jarh wa tadeel was in the courts he said…

And also it is used on those people of misguidance and corruption to make clear there condition and to warn from them; this is an affair that is needed but to busy ones self in this until it reaches the level where the people of the sunna are speaking about the people of the sunna then this is not correct nor befitting.

I have the audio if anyone wants to hear it, just tell me how to load it on the forum.


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