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 Post subject: Shk Rabee is NOT Imam of Jarh and Tadeel - Allama Ghudyaan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Shaykh Abdullaah Al-Ghudyaan, Member of The Council of Senior Scholars and Member of The Permanent Committee for Islamic Research and Fataawa was asked

The questioner: Is it true that there is are Ulama of Jarh wa Tadeel in todays time, is it true?

Shaikh Ghudyan: By Allah my brother the knowledge of Jarh wa Tadeel is in the books

The questioner: Is it present in our times?

Shaikh Ghudyan: the knowledge of Jarh wa Tadeel is from the Ulama of the Hadeeth – those who conveyed to us the Ahaadeeth through isnaads present in the books of Jarh wa Tadeel – why do we need someone now?

The questioner: there is someone who says that Dr.Rabee ibn Hadee al-Madkhali is the holder of the title banner of Jarh wa Tadeel?

Shaikh Ghudyan: No, if he were to come across me in the street, I would not recognize him

Link to the Audio : http://www.ahya.org/realaudio/alabbaad/ ... mamJarh.rm

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Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Abdur-Rahmaan Aal Ghudayyaan

*Please appropriately reference this biography to: www.***, thankyou!*

He was born in 1345 A.H./1934 C.E. in the city of az-Zulfee.

He studied the basics of reading and writing, when young, with 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Abdul-'Azeez as-Suhaymee, and 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Abdur-Rahmaan al-Ghayth, and Faalih ar-Roomee. He also studied the basics of fiqh, tawheed, Arabic grammar and faraa.id with Hamdaan Ibn Ahmad al-Baatil. He then travelled to Riyadh in 1363 A.H./1952 C.E., and in 1366 A.H./1955 C.E. he enrolled into al-Madrasah as-Sa'oodiyyah al-Ibtidaa.iyyah (previously known as Madrasatul-Aytaam) and graduated from there in 1368 A.H./1957 C.E.

He was then appointed a teacher in al-Madrasah al-'Azeeziyyah, and in 1371 A.H./1960 C.E. he enrolled into the Educational Institute. During this period he studied with Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Ibraaheem Aal ash-Shaykh. He also studied fiqh with Shaykh Sa'ood Ibn Rashood who was the (grand) judge of Riyadh, and tawheed with Shaykh Ibraaheem Ibn Sulaymaan, and Arabic grammar and faraa.id with Shaykh 'Abdul-Lateef Ibn Ibraaheem. He then continued his studies until he graduated from the Faculty of Sharee'ah in 1372 A.H./1961 C.E.

He was then appointed head of one of the courts, and then later transferred to teaching at the Educational Institute in 1378 A.H./1967 C.E. In 1380 A.H./1969 C.E. he was then appointed a teacher at the Faculty of Sharee'ah, and in 1386 A.H./1975 C.E. he was transferred to passing fatwa at the Daar al-Iftaa.

In 1391 A.H./1980 C.E. he was appointed a member of The Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa in addition to member of the Council of Senior Scholars.

He studied with a number of scholars in differing fields, and from amongst the well-known (in addition to those who have preceded) are:
Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn 'Abdullaah Ibn Baaz (rahima-hullaah) with whom he studied fiqh;
Shaykh 'Abdullaah al-Khulayfee with whom he also studied fiqh;
Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Rasheed with whom he studied fiqh, tawheed and faraa.id;
Shaykh Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeetee with whom he studied usool al-fiqh, sciences of the Qur.aan, and tafseer;
Shaykh 'Abdur-Rahmaan al-Afreeqee with whom he studied mustalah and hadeeth;
Shaykh 'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee;
'Abdul-Fattaah Qaaree al-Bukhaaree with whom he studied the Qur.aan in the recitation of Hafs 'an 'Aasim, to which the chain of transmission reaches the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).

In addition to what has preceded of his work, from 1389 A.H./1978 C.E. to date he has been a teacher of fiqh, usool al-fiqh, al-qawaa.id al-fiqhiyyah, mustalah and hadeeth, tafseer and it's sciences and 'aqeedah.

He has also been teaching fiqh in organised gatherings/lessons most days of the week, according to his schedule of many duties, after maghrib and after 'Ishaa. Sometimes he will teach after fajr and also after 'asr.

From 1395 A.H./1984 C.E., in addition to his work with The Permanent Committee, he gave lessons to students of knowledge in higher studies at the University of Imaam Muhammad and the Faculty of Sharee'ah in fiqh, usool al-fiqh, al-qawaa.id al-fiqhiyyah. He was also involved in supervising a number of theses at the Masters degree and Doctorate level, whilst also taking part in the (university) committee discussing theses. During this period, many students studied with him.

When Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ibn Humayd died in 1402 A.H./1991 C.E., he was undertook to giving fatwa on the radio programme "Noorun 'alad-Darb".


Last edited by Lets be Reasonable on Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Salam aleykum

The audio link was already given in the link Jarh wa Tadeel is finish by Luhyadan, and other scholars like Shaykh Fawzan and others said Jarh wa Ta'deel is only in books and does not exist today

Here are words of Shaykh Al-Ghudayan

http://www.ahya.org/realaudio/alabbaad/ ... mamJarh.rm

Also now if two scholars know the same mistakes of a person, and one rules he is an innovator and the other not, then even if one came with a detailed criticism, then one cannot aplly this rule of jarh wa ta'deel, because both scholar have the same amount of information about this person.

So if Shaykh Abbad met Shaykh Rabi on Al-Maribi, and SHaykh Rabi gave proves against Maribi, and yet Shaykh Abbad did not decalre him to be an innovator, then it shows that it is difference of ijtihad.

As some causis of criticism can be wrong Ijtihad from SHaykh Rabi, and I have laready shown that on issue like Mujmal and Mufassal Shaykh Fawzan, SHaykh Rajihi and other also say that the Mujmal Kalam of someone should be refered to his Mufassar.

So this principle that the one critising has more knoledge is only true when both do not know the mistakes or position of someone.

But one can criticise someone in detail, and make a mistake like SHaykh rabi cricitised Falih on saying that Tarik Jinns A'mal not being kafir is the creed of Murjiah, and Shaykh Rabi attacked Falih on this, and yet Kibar say the same as Falih.

So the one having a detailed criticsim can make a mistake and have a wrong ijtihad, condier something to be a mistakle while it is a the truth.

Although there are some common points between jarh and Ta'deel and refuting innovators, there are still differences, as the narration of the innovator who calls to his innovation is not acceprted, while good words of an innovator are accepted, so one can quote from Zamakhshari and others...

So the rules on narration are different than rules on refuting innovators or mistaken Salafis...

But for Shaykh rabi, then SHaykh Al-Ghudayan denied him being an Imam of jarh wa Ta'dil, so accepting his words without dalil is not something recommended by Kibar, that is why SHaykjh Fawzan said to leave the dispute between Shaykh Rabi and Shaykh Al-Maribi, and he did not blindly trust SHaykh rabi's criticism...And this is why SHaykh Abbad depite being presented mistakes of Al-maribi refuses to declare him to be an innovator

Allah knows best


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:29 pm 
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here is the link for thw Fatawa of Fawzan, Luhaydan, Rajihi on Jarh wa Ta'deel being finished today

viewtopic.php?t=4207&highlight=jarh+finish


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:10 pm 
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sh abdulah ghudyan said ali hassan spread madhab murjyah in mamlak.

contemporory statement need to be left instead of confusin avg. muslims..dhahabis statment

http://www.alathary.net/vb2/showthread.php?t=10228

i feel we are making troble bayn scholars like khwrija did btwin ali and mawiya r.a.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:01 am 
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Shaykh Al-Ghudayan's statement of Ali Hassan Halabi is one hundred pour cent true.

The mistakes of Halabi are detailed in section Iman and Kufr

So people should notice these mistakes and propagate words of Shaykh Ghudayan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:34 am 
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yet if someone says other scholar say SHaykh Rabi is the Imam of Jarh wa Tadil, then it is the opinion of some scholars...

yet for some scholars Shaykh Rabi is not the Imam of jarh wa Tadil...

But anyway, don't try to undermine statements of Shaykh Allamah Al-Ghudayan...

His words have much more weight than Anjari, Ismail Falih, Yemeni students of knowledge...He is from grounded people of Ilm

When SHaykh Ghudayan forbids a book introduced by Shaykh Rabi, it has much more weight than what a small yemeni student of knowledge can write against SHaykh Abbad or Jam'iha Ahlil hadith...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:00 am 
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jazak allah khair brother

no not at all i am not undermining alamahs words and my aqida is that of sh ghudyan may allah forgive me for undermining words of sh ghudyan

as for yemeni student of knowledge they have been shown the true level they deserve

jazak allah khair brother for clarification


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:22 pm 
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I have heard many brothers stating that Shaykh Allamah Al Albaanee declaring Shaykh Rabee' as the flag bearer of Jarh wat Ta'deel of our times. Is this statement false???

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Also if Jarh wat ta'deel is finished can anyone explain the statement below??????? :roll:

Shaikh 'Abdul Muhsin said in a tele-link:

Quote:
"And Jarh wa-Tadeel should truly be in the courts because the witness and the claimant has someone to authenticate for them and the defense criticizes them, saying ‘I do not accept his Shahadah (witness) because in him is such and such deficiency.’ Jarh wa-Tadeel is in the courts.

But as for indulging in Jarh and Tadeel in today’s times by engaging in abandoning people and speaking about people, then this returns to the person who started it with harm (destruction)."

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:01 pm 
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Aboo Rumaysah wrote:
I have heard many brothers stating that Shaykh Allamah Al Albaanee declaring Shaykh Rabee' as the flag bearer of Jarh wat Ta'deel of our times. Is this statement false???


Firstly, this is the shaikh opinion and he did not witness the fitnah that occured after his death. Otherwise, shaikh al-albaani condemns those who have the traits of shaikh rabee's group.

http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?nam ... &artid=158

And this is the advice by the Muhaddith of Shaam, Al-Allama Al-Salafee Al-Albaanee (rahimahullah) to a questioner about shaikh Salmaan (Al-Awdah)’s praising of Syed Qutb. The Shaikh said, “Look my brother, I Advice you and the other youth who have taken a wicked (Munharif) way as it appears to me and Allah knows best. And do not waste your time in criticizing each other in saying, ‘Such person is such’ and ‘such person said such’ and ‘such person said such’!!

Because Firstly, this has nothing to do with knowledge!!

Secondly, This harbors malice in the hearts and brings about ill and hate in the hearts!!

It is upon you to seek the knowledge because by seeking knowledge, it will be revealed to you whether this talk that you are asking me about is true or false, and whether this person because he has so many mistakes deserves to be an innovator or not. What do we have to do with such indulgences in those matters? I advice that you do not indulge in this matter because truly we complain now about the disunity among the Salafis and this unity, and Allah knows best, the main cause of it is the self which orders evil and it is not actually the difference of opinion. This is my advice…

I am asked a lot what is your opinion about such and such person, I immediately understand that the person who is asking is either for this person or against him, and sometimes the person who is being asked about is from amongst our brothers who might have deviated from the path so I advice the person who asks the question, what do you want with Zaid, Bakr and Umar (meaning this person or that person) be straight as you have been ordered. Learn the knowledge and the knowledge make you distinguish what is right and what is wrong and who is correct and who is otherwise, then do not have hatred against your Muslim brother just because he made a mistake, even though he has deviated because he has deviated partially in one issue while he has not deviated in other issue so we as Hadeeth scholars we accept the Hadeeth of someone and then we say in his translation that he is a Murji, etc. Of course, this is a weak point and we have a scale which we abide by and we do not give the weight to one deviation on lot of good deed and the biggest deed is the Shahadah.” And the Shaikh continued, “this kind of split and Allah knows best, the greater cause in it is the nafs (self) because the self orders the evil.” From tape 1/784 (1414 Rabee al-Aakhir) – Sept 18, 1993]

+++++++++++++++++

Note, Shaikh al-Albaani said the above while he has witnessed nothing of the fitnah, infighting and splitting that has occurred amongst the salafis as a result of shaikh rabee's group


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