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 Post subject: Fatiha in Prayer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:31 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:11 am
Posts: 6
Location: Manama Bahrain
Can anybody tell me if Fatiha is to be recited behind Imam or not........ I have read lot about it & there seems to be 2 views within Salafis on this. In they say you have to read, However according to Albani the hadeets are abrogated & we should only listen? Plz explain with references both the views.

 Post subject: Re: Fatiha in Prayer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:59 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Pakistan
kashif71 wrote:
Can anybody tell me if Fatiha is to be recited behind Imam or not........ I have read lot about it & there seems to be 2 views within Salafis on this. In they say you have to read, However according to Albani the hadeets are abrogated & we should only listen? Plz explain with references both the views.

Assalamualykum warhamtuallahi wabarakatuhu!

This is one of the contradictory issues amongst the salafees and I think it does not justify well enough to create walls amongst us.
Sheikh Badee ud deen rahimuallah wrote a risala on the obligation of reciting Fatiha behind Imam and he had also discussed the opposite view in it. In other risala sheikh has discussed his debate with a scholar who did not consider it wajib. This is what sheikh said:

“Few years before , Shiekh Muhammad Salim Atiya, who was teacher in Jamaiya Islamiya Madina , and now he is Qadhi in Shariya Department, invited me and Moulvi Khalid Mahmood, teacher of Jamaiya Ashrifya Lahore (deobandi midrisa) for the dinner in his house. He then asked us to debate on the issue of reciting fatiha behind Imam and he sat beside us and started noting down the points. ALLAMAH Ehsan Elahi Zaheer*, who was student in madina university at that time, was also present there ”

Then the sheikh quoted that they had a long discussion and at the end Moulvi Khalid Mahmood end up in saying that he would further search on this topic.
In the same risala Sheikh Badee ud deen rahimualah said that the very issue he was able to convince his staunch hanafi teacher after years of discussion and arguments was the issue of fatiha khalf Imam.

Sheikh Zubair Ali Zae (hafidaullah) has translated the risala of Imam Bukhari "Juz Fatiha Khalf Imam" and has done takhreej of it and answered almost all the points of those who do not consider it wajib.
It was asked from Sheikh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) and he held the same opinion that it's obligatory to recite fatiha behind Imam.
As for the view point of Sheikh Albani (rahimuallah), he said that it is obligatory in seri prayers and not in Jehri ones.

*I know this is off topic but I would like to deduce some points from Sheikh Badee’s words about Allamah Ehsan Elahi Zaheer ( May Allah have mercy on him). For those who understand urdu can judge that how Sheikh Badee ud Deen rahimauallah spoke high of Sheikh Ehsan, he said “ Iss majlis main Allamah Ehsan Elahi Zaheer bhi majood they jo iss waqt Jamaya Islamiya main pertey they.” Here Allamah Badee ud Deen rahimuallah mentioned specifically the presence of Sheikh Ehsan and quoted his name with Allamah. It would be amazing if some hadadee extremists still have problems in considering Ehsan Elahi Zaheer a known salafi scholar after Sheikh Badee ud deen rahimauallah called him Allamah.
May Allah Subhanwata'la guide us all.
Abu Handhala Rehan

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:29 am 

Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:16 am
Posts: 2775
Location: France
salam aleykum

Shaykh Albani said not to recite when the imam is reciting with loud voice, not when he is silent.

We can divide views in 3 categories

1) Shafi'i and Bukhari say you should recite in all cases, wether the imam recites loudly or silently.

2) Malik and Ahmad say one should not recite when the imam recite loudly, and should recite when the Imam recites silently, but Imam Ahmad also said that one should recite in the saktah ( pausis) when the imam recites loudly.

Muhammad ibn Hassan student of Abu Hanifa said that one should recite when the Imam recites silently. This view is also prefered by Mulla ALi Qari, Mulla Jioun, Luknawi and Shah Waliullah, and these two also say that one can recite in the saktah ( Pausis)

Also Badayuni Nidhamudin Awliayh is said to recite behind the Imam, as Mirza Jan Jannan.

3) Abu Hanifa said that in all cases, the muqtadi should remain silent. And this view is preferred by majority of Ahnaf.

Ibn Taymiyah is on Imam Ahmad's view and he also says that the muqtadi can recite in the saktah of the Imam when he recites loudly, while Albani weakens ahadith of saktah and says they do not exist.

Insha Allah I will bring the dalil that Fatihah behind Imam is wajib, and the weakness of the dalil of shaykh Albani.

Because shaykh ALbani brings three dalil to show that it is abrogated

1) Hadith of Abu Hurayra, that the Prophet saw stop them from Tanazu' ( conflict) with him when he was reciting, and so people stoped reciting behind Imam

According to Imam Bukhari the words " And people stoped reciting" are words of Zuhri and not Abu Hurayra. So these words are Mursal.

And the hadith forbids Tanazu', which is confdlict with loud voice. If one recites in his nafs there is no pbm

2) Hadith of Muslim, when the Imam makes takbeer you make takbeer, when he recites you remain silent

These words are also said to be shadh and weak by Imam Bukhari.

3) The hadith the one who has an Imam, the Qira'at of the Imam is his Qira'at, then Bukhari says all his routes are weak, while Albani follows ibn Taymiyah in sahing it is hassan li ghayrihi

Insha Allah details to come

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:20 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:17 pm
Posts: 175
The Ruling on Reciting Soorat Al-Faatihah In Prayer
By the Honorable Shaikh Muhammad bin Salih Al-Uthaimeen
Taken From Islamic Verdicts on the Pillars of Islam
Collected & Arranged by Fahd bin Nasir bin Ibrahim As-Sulaim

Q. 242. What is the ruling on reciting Soorat Al-Faatihah in prayer?

A. Scholars have differed regarding the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah, holding numerous opinions on it:

1. That Soorat Al-Faatihah is not an obligation upon the Imaam, nor upon those who are being led in prayer, nor upon the single worshipper, neither in the quiet prayers nor in those in which the recitation is made aloud. What is obligatory is the recitation of whatever Quraanic Verses are easy for the worshipper. As evidence for this view, they cite the Words of Allaah, the Most High in Soorat Al- Muzzammil:

“So, recite you of the Qur‘aan as much as may be easy for you.” (73:20)

And the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) said to a man:

“Recite whatever is easy for you from the Qur‘aan” [1]

2. That the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah is a pillar of the prayer for the Imaam, for those being led in prayer and for the single worshipper, both in the quiet prayers and those in which the recitation is made aloud, and both the latecomer and the one who joined the congregation at the beginning of the prayer.

3. That the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah is a pillar of the prayer for the Imaam and the one being led in prayer under any circumstances, neither in the quiet prayers nor those in which the recitation is made aloud.

4. That the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah is a pillar of the prayer for the Imaam and the single worshipper in the quiet prayers and those in which the recitation is made aloud and a pillar of the prayer for the one being led in the quiet prayers, but not the prayers in which recitation is made aloud.

The Most Correct View in My opinion is that the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah is a pillar of the prayer for the Imaam, for the one being led in prayer and for the single worshipper, both in the quiet prayers and in the prayers in which the recitation is made aloud, except for the latecomer, if he catches the Imaam in Ruku’. In his case the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah is not required in these circumstances. The evidence for this is the generality of the words of the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem):

“There is no prayer for one who does not recite the Opening of the Book (i.e. Soorat Al-Faatihah).” [2]

And the words of the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem):

“Whoever prayed and did not recite therein Ummul-Qur‘aan (i.e. Soorat Al-Faatihah), it is Khidaaj.” [3]

Meaning that it is corrupt and this is general. What also proves this is the Hadith of Ubaadah bin As-Saamit, (Radiyallaahu ‘Anhu), in which he said that the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) went out from the morning prayer and said to his Companions:

“Perhaps you recite behind your Imaam?”

They said: “Yes, oh, Messenger of Allaah.” He said:

“Do not do so, except for Ummul-Qur‘aan, for there is no prayer for one who does not recite it.” [4]

And this was narrated regarding the prayers in which the recitation is made aloud.

As for its not being required for the latecomer, the evidence for that is the Hadith of Abu Bakrah, (Radiyallaahu ‘Anhu), who caught the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) in Ruku’. He hastened and bowed before reaching the row, then entered the row. Then when the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) finished the prayer, he asked about who had done that and Abu Bakrah said: “I, oh, Messenger of Allaah.” The Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) said:

“May Allaah increase you in striving, but do not do it again.” [5]

The Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) did not order him to repeat the Rak‘ah in which he was hasty due to his desire not to miss it. If it was obligatory for him, the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) would have ordered him to do it, as he ordered the one who prayed without being at rest to repeat his prayer. This is from the narrated evidence.

As for the logical evidence, we say: This man who came late did not catch the standing which is the place of the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah, and since he did not catch the place, the obligations therein are lifted from him. The evidence for which is that a person whose hand has been cut off is not required to wash the upper arm in place of the forearm; rather the obligation is lifted from him, due to the loss of its place. Likewise, the obligation to recite Soorat Al-Faatihah is lifted from one who caught the Imaam while he was in Ruku’, because he did not catch the standing which is the place of the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah; and the obligation of the standing is only lifted from him in order that he may follow the Imaam.

This, in my view is the correct opinion. Were it not for the Hadith of ‘Ubaadah bin As-Saamit which I indicated a short while ago, the most authoritative view would be that the recitation of Soorat Al-Faatihah is not required by one being led in a prayer in which the recitation is made aloud. This is because the listener is like the reciter regarding the attainment of reward, which is why Allaah, the Most High said to Musa, (‘Alaihi Salaam ):

"Verily, the invocation of you both is accepted.” Soorah Yunus: Verse: 89

Even though the supplicator was Musa alone. Allaah, the Most High said:

And Mûsa (Moses) said: "Our Lord! You have indeed bestowed on Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and his chiefs splendor and wealth in the life of this world, our Lord! That they may lead men astray from Your Path. Our Lord! Destroy their wealth, and harden their hearts, so that they will not believe until they see the painful torment." Soorah Yunus: Verse: 88

And did Allaah inform that Haroon, (‘Alaihi Salaam), supplicated? The answer is no, but in spite of that, He said:

"Verily, the invocation of you both is accepted.”

The scholars said regarding the use of the dual after the singular: Musa supplicated and Haroon believed.

As for the Hadith of Abu Hurairah, (Radiyallaahu ‘Anhu), in which it was said:

“Whoever was being led by an Imaam, the recitation of the Imaam is a recitation for him.” [6]

It is weak, because it is a Mursal [7] narration, as Ibn Kathir said, in the introduction to his Tafsir. Also, those who cite this Hadith as evidence say that the one who is being led in prayer is required to recite Soorat Al-Faatihah in the quiet prayers, so they do not follow it unrestrictedly.

If it were said: If the Imaam does not remain silent, then when should the one being led in prayer recite Soorat Al-Faatihah? We say: He should recite Soorat Al-Faatihah while the Imaam is reciting, because the Companions used to recite with the Messenger (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem) while he was reciting, for he said:

“Do not do so, except for Ummul-Qur‘aan, for there is no prayer for one who does not recite it.”


[1] Reported by Al- Bukhaari in the Book of the Adhaan, in the Chapter: The Obligation of Recitation for the Imaam and Those Being Led in Prayer (757); and by Muslim in the Book of Prayer, in the Chapter: The Obligation to Recite Al-Faatihah in Every Rak‘ah (397).

[2] Reported by Al- Bukhaari in the Book of the Adhaan, in the Chapter: The Obligation of Recitation for the Imaam and Those Being Led in Prayer (756); and by Muslim in the Book of Prayer, in the Chapter: The Obligation to Recite Al-Faatihah (395).

[3] Reported by Muslim in the Book of Prayer, in the Chapter: The Obligation to Recite Al-Faatihah (395).

[4] Reported by Imaam Ahmed 5:316; by Abu Dawood in the Book of Prayer, in the Chapter: Whoever Did Not Recite in the Prayer (823); by At-Tirmidhi in the Book of Prayer, in the Chapter: What Has Been Said Regarding Recitation Behind the Imaam; by Al-Hakim 1:238 and 239; and by Ad-Daraqutni 1:120.

[5] Reported by Al- Bukhaari in the Book of the Adhaan, in the Chapter: If He Bows Outside the Row.

[6] Reported by Imaam Ahmed 3:339; and by Ibn Majah in the Book of Iqaamah.

[7] Mursal: An incomplete chain of narrators which goes back only as far as a Taabi‘i (one who heard from one or more of the Companions) and so could not have narrated directly from the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa Sallem).

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:38 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:11 am
Posts: 6
Location: Manama Bahrain
I have read now ( & before also) Why it is necessary to recite Fatiha. Can you plz quote the reasons used by Albani for not to recite it. What is the Evidence used by Him.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:12 am 

Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:16 am
Posts: 2775
Location: France
Bis Millahi Ir rahman Ir Rahim

Before looking at dalil lets see the madhab of scholars

Ahnafs say one should not recite behind Imam wether his recitation is Jahri ( loud voice) or Sirri ( Silent voice). Ibn Hibban mentioned that the opinion of Abu Hanifah is that it is better not to recite behind Imam in all cases, and this is also mentioned in Mizan of Sha’rani

But later Hanafis report forbiddance from their Imam as ibn Humam who rejected the words of Ibn Hibban, and say it is Makruh Tahrimi to recite behind Imam in all cases, and in Durul Mukhtar it is said the one who recites behind the Imam is Fasiq and his prayer is Fasid, and Sarkhais also adopted that the Salah is Fasid, and some even went to say that one should break the teeth of the one who recites behind Imam or put sand in his mouth as reported by Luknawi in his Imam AL Kalam

And as reported in Hidayah, Muhammad ibn Hassan say it is better to recite in sirri cases, and his words are narrated with isnad in Mabsut. Ahnafs who say it is makruh trahrimi say this fatwa is shadh, and Luknawi opposed to this. Imam Luknawi also say one should recite when the Imam recites silently and in the saktah when the Imam recites loudly.

And the opinion of Luknawi is also that of Shah Waliullah as in hujjatullah Balighah, as his father Abder raheem in Anfas Arifin, and his great son Shaw Ismail.

Ahmad Sirhindi, Badayuni known as Nizamudin Awliah, Mirza Jan Jannan are alos reported to recite behind Imam

Luknawi says « Imam Muhammad narrates that it is better to recite for the Muqtadi in sirri cases, and this is also reported from Abu Hanifah as said in hidayah and Mujtabah Sharh Qaduri and others, and this is also prefered by our mashaykhs, and for this we cannot oppose the recitation in Jahri case if there is no khalal ( gap) in listening ( Umdatu ra’yah p 173)

Anwar Shah Kashmiri says « For me, the Madhab Muhaqiq of Imam abu Hanifah is that he abstained ( hajara0 from recitation in Jahri case and he gave permission in sirri case, as reported by Sahib Hidauah from Imam Muhammad ( Fayd AL bari vol 2 p 2720

He also said there is ikhtilaf in this topic so it is better to avoid the saying of ibn Humam of Makruh Tahrimi. He says in Faslul Khitab p 208 that recitation behind Imam is Mubah ( permissible)

Thafar Ahmad Uthmani sayd « According to Maulana Luknawi, Mulla Jioun, the word of Imam Muhammad are present and the condition of recitation Sirri is also present in a clear way” Majalah Qaran dec 1960

Luknawi says « There is no sahih marfu’ hadith forbiding to recite behind Imam, and all hadith marfu quoted in this subject are not sahih or baseless » ( ta’liq AL Mummajad p 99”

And Mulla Ali Qari says « In our Imams, Imam Muhammad agrees with imam Shafi’i in Sirri case. And this is a way of reconciling opposing hadith, and this is also the word of Imam Malik Mirqat vol 2 p 301, and in his sharh of Muwatta he rejects the words of ibn humam, as the reconciliation is stronger as this is the opinion of majority of Mujtahids
One should know that without Imam, when one recites alone, or for the Imam, Fatihah is not Fardh for Ahnafs but Wajib, and only recitation mutlaq is Fardh ( any Ayats) according to the Ayat “ Read what is easy for you from Quran” and the one who prays without Fatihah is Salah is Naqis, and he needs to do a Sajdah sahw to correct this mistake, and in the last two rak’a in four rak’atin prayer, if he omits Fatihah there is even no need of sajdah sahw. The Hanafi can only recite Tahmeed or other sourates instead of Fatihah in last two rak’a

And this because of their distinction between Fardh what is established from Quran or Muataatir hadith omitting it makes the thing batil, and Wajib what is established in other hadith ommiting it makes the thing naqis but not batil.

Like itminan in salah after Ruku’ and between the two sajdah, it is wajib according to them, so not doing itminan does not make their salah batil but fasid, there is no need of repetition, while the Prophet saw forbade the one who prayed badly to repeat his prayer.

All other fuqahas declare that salah without Fatihah when one prays alone or for the Imam is batil.

Imam Malik say one should recite in sirri case and not recite in Jahri case. This view is preferred by shaykh ALbani who says qiraa’ah behind Imam was wajib then its wujub abrogated in sirri case.

Imam Ahmad says it is better to recite in sirri case and in sirri case recite in saktah. This is also the view of shaykhul Islam ibn Taymiyah. And shaykh ALbani makes tad’if of hadith on saktah.

Imam Tirmidhi says after quoting that Imam Ahmad says to listen to Imam in Jahri case “ Despite this, Imam Ahmad chose qiraa’ah behind Imam and that one should not leave it even behind Imam” ( Tirmidhi with Tuhfa vol 1 p 257)

Ibn Qudamah says « If he ( the muqtadi) reads a part of the Fatihah in the first saktah then Imam recites and when Imam is quiet in second Saktah he reads the rest of Fatihah, the clear words of Ahmad is that it is Hassan” ( Mughni vol 1 p 605)

He says « According to majority it is Mustahab to recite in Sirri case and Jahri in Saktah » ( vol 1 p 603)

Ibn Taymiyah says “ Among them there was those who ordered qiraa’ah within the saktah of Imam, or for the one who is far from imam and does not hear his qira’ah, and for the one who is close to imam and hears him, he ordered him to listen to Imam’s qira’ah, and listening replaces qiraa’ah. This is the word of majority of scholars as imam Malik and Ahmad and other Fuqahas, and majority of Sahabas did this and this is the tatbiq between many hadiths” ( Majmu Fatawa vol 23 p 327)

So we see that Imam Ahmad prescribed to recite in saktah in Jahri case, and this is the saying of majority according to ibn Taymiyah and ibn Qudamah

Imam Shafi’I in his Qawl Jadid affirmed that in all cases Fatihah is wajib. And this is the view of Awza’I, Layth ibn Sa’d and many scholars like Imam Bukhari. Imam Baghawi says “ And this is affirmed by Shafi’I in Egypt, and majority of his Ashab are upon this, and this is also the saying of Awza’I, Layth ibn Sa’d and Abu Thawr”. Imam Tirmidhi says that Ishaq ibn Rahawayah is also with Imam Shafi’I in his SUnan

Ibn Abdel Barr also attribute this madhab to Awza’i and Abu Thawr, as in Imam Kalam of Luknawi p 30

In al Mughni, it is reported from Imam Ahmad that neither Awza’i nor Layth ibn Sa’d nor Thawri were saying that the one who does not recite behind Imam is prayer is batil. It is possible that they viewed it as wajib but because of ikhtilaf they did not declare salah batil, or is it possible they had more than one view, and the view of wujub did not reach Imam Ahmad, as Imam Qurtubi also reports a view of Imam Malik similar to Shafi’i.

Imam Baghawi says “ Among Sahabas a jama’ah viewed fatihah behind Imam as wajib in Sirri and Jahri case, and among them Umar, Uthman, Ali, Ibn Abbas, Muaz, Ubay ibn Ka’b and others” Sharh Sunnah vol 2 p 82-87

Imam Bukhari has written a rislalah about Qiraa’ah being wajib in all cases “ Juzz Qirat Khalf al Imam”, and Imam Bayhaqi wrote “ Kitab Al Qiraat”.

Imam Bukhari says “ Hassan Basri, Said ibn Jubayr, Maymun ibn Mahran and al lot of ( ma la Uhsi min tabiins) Tabi’is and Ahle ilm affirmed one should recite behind Imam even if he recites loudly” ( Juzz p 5 )

This view is also that of Imam Shawkani and all scholars of haditrh of Hindo Pak, Nawab Sidiq Hassan Khan, Nadhir Hussain Dehlawi, Abder Rahman Mubarakpuri, Athimabadi, Ata’ullah Hanif, Ismail Salafi, Ubaydullah Mubarakpuri, Badiudin Shah Sindi, and all others.

There is ikhtilaf in them wether the one who reaches the Imam in Ruku’ wether his rak’a counts, majority of Sahabah affirms it counts, but Imam Bukhari has shown an Athar of Abu Hurayra showing rak’a is not counted.

Shaykh Ibn Baz, Shaykh Abdallah Ropuri affirm that the Wujub is Saqit when one reaches Imam in Ruku’, according to the Hadith of Abu Bakrah, see their Fatawas

Imam Luknawi wrote a book on this topic called “ Imam Kalam” where he shows it is preferable to read behind Imam in sirri case and in saktah in Jahri case, and shows there is no dalil forbidding it. This book opposes the book of Nu’mani Shibli “ Thil Ghamam” who tried to prove it is haram to recite behind Imam in all cases, with a lot of weak and fabricated hadiths. Nu’mani Shibli answered to Luknawi and Luknawi wrote notes on Imam Al Kalam in answer and named it “ Ghayth Al maram”, and Shibli could not answer this despite is known Ta’asub and attack on muhaditheen he blames lacking of understanding.

On this topic Imam Abder Rahman Mubarakpuri, author of Tuhfatul Ahwazi Sharh Tirmidhi, student of Nadhir Hussain Dehlawi, wrote a book in urdu called “ Tahqiq al kalam fi wujub qiraat khalf al Imam”.

In it he answered many Ahnafs like Nimawi, Gangohi, kashmiri, Abdr Rashir Nu’mani.

Then Sarfraz Safdar Khan Déobandi wrote “Ahsan kalam fi tark qiraat khalf al Imam” where he wekaned all hadith on wujub of reciting behind Imam. He even weakned a hadith from Imam Muslim and there is no salaf in weakening this hadith

( Shaykh ALbani also answered Abu Guddah blaming him of weakening hadith from sahih, and shaykh Albani said I weakened hadith in which people of knowledge preceded him, while Abu Ghuddah’s teacher weakned some that no scholar weakened, and even that reported by both Bukhari and Muslim, that no scholar of Ummah did except Kawthari, and Abu ghuddah was silent on his shaykh’s treachery)

Sarfraz Safdar Khan also weakens hadith that Ahnafs declare sahih like Luknawi, ibn humam, Ayni, Zelai, Shah Waliullah, Haythami, Tahawi et Ibn Turkmani. He is opposing the Akabir of his Madhab.

He went to the extreme of weaknening some narrators he declare thiqaah in other of his own books. He weaknes narrators that Ibn humam, Zela’I and ‘Ayni defended in their sharh of Hidayah and these hadith were in favour of Hanafi fiqh.

This Man went then even to attack the credibility of Ibn Hajar, Bayhaqi, Daraqutni and others.

Shaykh Muhammad Gondalwi answered him in his “Khayrul kalam fi wujub Qiraat khalf al Imam”, and after answers of Safdar, Shaykh Irshadul Haqq Athri wrote “ Tawdih Al kalam fi Wujub qiraat Khalf al Imam” where he showed the lies of Safdar Khan.

Insha Allah details of dalil will come soon

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:52 pm 

Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:16 am
Posts: 2775
Location: France
salam aleykum

here are some words taken from Tawdih Al Kalam, Tahqiq al Kalam and other

First Ayat : “ We gave you the seven verse repeated and the glorious Quran
( Surah Hijr)

Ibn Kathir says “ Qatadah said they were reminded ( 7 Ayats) because they are Fatihah and they are repeated in every rak’a obligatory or sureegatory, and Ibn jarir chose this” ( vol 3 p 557)

Imam Shawkani said “ Because they are repated in very salah » ( Fath Al Qdir vol 3 p 136)

Suyuti says the same in “Itqan fil ulum al Quran” vol 1 p 53 “ Some said that the word Mathani is mentioned because it is repeated in every rak’ah, and this is strengthened by what ibn jarir narrates with a Hassan sanad from Umar “ Sab’u Mathani Fatihatul Kitab tuthana fi kuli Rak’atin”

Shaykh Albani also quoted Baji on this in his Sifat Salat.

Hadith : “ Ubadah ibn Samit reports from Prophet saw “ There is no Salah for the one who does not recite Umm AL Quran” Muslim and in another version “ There is no Salah for the one who does not recite Fatihatal Kitab” Bukhari and Muslim

Hadith : Abu Hurayrah from Prophet saw “ The one who prays without reading umm Al Quran, it is khidaj, three times, incomplete” and Abu Hurayara was asked we rae behind Imam and he said “ Recite it in your Nafs” ( Fi Nafsika)

So Abu Hurayra clearly understood this hadith meaning that the Muqtadi should recite behind the Imam.

Hadith according to Aisha from Prophet saw “ Every salah where Fatihatul Kitab is not read is khidaj” ( Juzz Qiraaat de Bukhari)

This narration has Ibn ishaq who is thiqah according to majority of scholars, and Imam Malik who treated him of being a liar has been mistaken as shown by muhadithuns.

Imam Bukhari in his Juzz has shown that the accusation of Imam Malik on him are false and are based on the report of someone who is mistaken on this case. He says Ibn ishaq narrates from my wife and I never saw him at my home, and this kind of statement are not a prove since he could have heard from her when he was a child or other reasons.

He is declared thiqaah by ibn ‘Uyaynah, Ibn Mubarak said thiqah thiqah Thiqah, Shubah said Ibn Ishaq emir al muminin fil hifz, imam Bukhari said that Ali AL Madini used him as a prove and he saw nobody accusing him of lying, Ahmad says Hassan AL hadith, Ibn Hibban says thiqah as Ijli, Bayhqai says thiqah Saduq, Abu Zur’a says Saduq, Ibn adi says La bas Bihi, Zuhli says Hassan al hadith, Khatabi says Thiqah, Ibn hazm says Zuhri also considered him Thiqah, Mundhiri says his hadith are hassan, Dhahabi says man takalama fihi wa huwa mawthuqun, ibn Qayem says Thiqah, Haythami hanfi says “ Ibn ishaq thiqah mudalisun”,

Ibn Hajar answered the Jarh mufaassar on ibn ishaq, et ibn hajar said saduq, mudalis

Ibn Kathir after quoting a Hadith of ibn ishaq in his tafsir says isnad is Hassan

Ibn Humam after quoting jarh on ibn Ishaq says « He is thiqah Thiqah there is no doubt » Fath Al Qadir

Ayni says “ Majority considers him to be thiqah”

Zelai narrates words of Bukhari in nasb ruyah

Mulla Ali Qari says on a hadith “ In the isnad there is Ibn ishaq and he affirms tahdith, so the hadith is sahih” ( Mirqat vol 2 p 137)

Luknawi says “ Tawthiq is rajih for him ” Imam Al kalam p 273

Nimawi says in his Athar Sunnan on isnad having ibn ishaq Hassan.

Kashmiri declares him thiqah urf shiza p 42

And it is said the same from Binnori, Thafar Ahmad Uthamani also Kawthari and Abu Ghuddah Hanfi.

Abu Yussuf based on narrattions of ibn Ishaq

Bayhaqi reports another version of this hadith with tahdith so his being a mudalis is not a problem for this hadith.

What a shame for Sarfraz Deobandi to declare ibn Ishaq liar here and this hadith weak, and in his book Taskin Sudur taking a narration from Ibn Ishaq where he reports with 'Ananah, and he declares the weak hadith sahih. And in more than 8 times he narrates hadith from Ibn ishaq, ashown by shaykh irshadul haqq.

Hadith from Abdallah ibn Amr from Prophet saw “ Every salah where Fatihatul Kitab is not read is mukhdaj ( fasid) ” ( Juzz Qiraat)

The isnad is from Shuaib an Abi an Jadihi and it is hassan according to majority of scholars. It has also some narrators said weak and other saying thiqah, but as the jarh is mubham, ta’dil prevails

Imam Bukhari said “ Imam Ahmad, Ali ibn Madini, Ishaq ibn Rahawaih, Abu Ubayd, Abu Khaythmah, and majority of Ashabs consider hadith of amr ibn suhayb 'an abi an jadihi as hujjah” ( Tuhfah vol 1 p 267)

Hadith : Ubadah ibn Samit said « We were behind the Prophet saw in fajr, the Prophet saw was reciting and recitation became difficult for him, when he finished salah, he said “ Maybe you read behind your Imam” and we said yes Ya Rasulallahi, and he said “ Do not do it except for Fatihatul Kitab because there is no salah for the one who does not recite it”

( Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Daraqutni, Mustadrak Hakim. Juzz Qiraat, Kitab Qiraat, Tabarani, Sunna Kubra, Nassai, Ahmad, Sahih ibn khuzaymah, Sahih ibn hibban, Muntaqa ibn Jarud)

Tirmidhi said the Hadith is Hassan, Daraqutni says sanad Hassan, Bayhaqi declares Sahih, ibn Khuzaymah, ibn Hibban and Abu Dawud declare it Sahih, Khattabi says its sanad is Jayd, ibn Qayem in his “Tahthib Sunan” that Bukhari considers him sahih and used him as a hujjah.

Ibn Hajar in his nataij Ajfkar says this hadith is Hassan, ibn Mulqin says this Hadith is Jayd in Badr al Munir, Shawkani declares it sahih in Sayl Al Jarar, and Luknawi says this Hadith is Sahih or Hassan in Ghayth Al Ghamam

The sanad has ibn ishaq, and majority considers him as thiqah or hassan, and even Ahnafs.

And this hadith has a lot of mutabi’at

First that of Said ibn Abdel aziz from makhul in Sunan Daraqutni , Mustadrak Hakim, Bayhaqi in Kitab Qira’ah, SUnan kubra and this narration is at least Hassan. And said follows ibn Ishaq.

Secondly, ‘Ala ibn Harith from makhul in Kitab Al Qira’ah of Bayhaqi, and the hadith is also Hassan, and ‘Ala follows ibn ishaq.

Third Zubaydi follows ibn Ishaq in Bayhaqi’s kitab Qiraa’ah, Sunnan Darqutni and the sanad is mursal, but this is enough to follow.

Fourth Zayd ibn Waqidi and Makhul, Daraqutni, Bayhaqi, Juzz Bukhari, and Zayd follows ibn Ishaq, and Daraqutni says its isnad is Hassan

So ibn ishaq is followed by 4 narrators, and Makhul is followed by two others

Ibn Taymiyah thought this version was a mistake from narrators of Shaam, but shaykh irshadul haqq showed that people of Hijaz also followed Makhul.

So this hadith of Ubadah is sahih, Imam Bukhari used it as a prove. SHaykh ALbani quotes this hadith in his daif sunan Tirmidhi and Daif SUnan Abu Dawud, but in Sifat Salah Nabi saw he quotes this hadith to show that Qira’ah was wajib, and then abrogated in sirri case.

Another Hadith, ubadah ibn Samit narrates that the Prophet saw recited a prayer with loud voice and he said that none recite when the Imam recites, except Surah Fatihah ( Daraqutni, Bayhaqi, Bukhari in his juzz, Abu Dawud)

Bayhaqi says its narrators are thiqah, as Daraqutni

Another hadith “ Ubadah ibn Samit narrates that the Prophet saw said “ There is no salah for the one who does not recite behind Imam” ( Bayhaqi in Kitab Qira’ah and he declares the zyadah as sahih, and Ali Muttaqi Hanfi says sahih also im Kanz A’mal)

Another Hadith, Ubadah ibn Samit narrates that the Prophet saw said “ The one who prays behind Imam, let him recite Fatihah” ( Tabarani Kabir, and Haythami says in majma Zawaid, its men are mawthuq)

Another hadith, Muhammad ibn abi Aisha reports from the Prophet saw “ Maybe you read when the Imam recites, and Sahabah said yes we do it, and he said “ Do noyt do it except Fatihatul Kitab” ( Sunan Kubra, Kitab Qiraat, Juzz of Bukhari, Daraqutni, Musnad Ahmad, Musanaf Abder Razaq, and Haythami said its men are those of sahih, and ibn hajar said the sanad is hassan in talkhis Al Habeer p 87)

Another, Anas said the Prophet saw said after one prayer « Do you read in salah when the Imam reads, they remained quiet, he asked them three times, and a man said yes we do it, and he said not to do it and that one should recite Fatihah in his nafs” (Juzz Bukhari, Ibn Hibban, Musnad Abu Ya’la, Sunna Kubra, and Haythami says its narrators are thiqah)

Another, Bukhari narrates in his juzz from Amr from his father from his great father from the Prophet saw “ Do you read behind Imam, and they said yes, and he said do not do it except Umm AL Quran” and this hadith is at least Hassan according to shaykh irshadul Haqq

So it is established in these narrations that Prophet saw prescribed to recite behind Imam. Abu Hurayra also told people who asked him about being behind Imam to read in one’s nafs

This is why SHaykh Albani said in his sifat Salah Nabi that Qira’ah was wajib behind Imam and insha Allah detail will come on the hadith shaykh ALbani uses to show abrogation.

Athar from Sahabas and Tabi’is

Yazid ibn Sharik asked Umar “ Should I read behind Imam, and he said yes Ya Emir Al muminin, and he said ( even) if I read » ( Juzz, Kitab Qiraat, Mustadrak, Sunan Kubra, Daraqutni)

Another version “ And I said « What if you read loudly ( Jaharta), and he said even I read loudly” ( Kitab Qiraat, Daraqutni, Sunan Kubra, Mustadrak, Darqutni
Says its narrators are thiqah, and Dhahabi said this athar is sahih in his notes on mustadrak)

Abu Hurayra said “ If Imam recites Umm AL Quran, recite also or precede him... » ( Juzz of bukhari, Nimawi Hanfi says the sanad is Hassan in his Athar Sunnan”

Ibn Abbas « Read Fatihatul Kitab behind Imam » ( Kitab Qiraah) declared sahih by Bayhaqi, and he brings two other follwing words with narrators mutakalam fihi, where ibn Abbas wether Imam recites loudly or not. And it is authentically reported from his two students Mujahid and ibn Jubayr theta they prescribed Qira’ah in all cases.

Mahmud ibn Rabi said he heard Ubadah ibn Samit reciting behind the Imam, and I asked him you read behind Imam ? and Ubadah said “ There is Salah without recitation ( of Fatihah) ( Sunan Kubra, Kitab Qira’ah) so it shows his amdhab even after the Prophet saw.

Safdar Khan deobandi could not even make tad’if of this athar, but he tried to show that it was his own view, he did not take it from the Prophet saw ordering hom to do so, so what about all Ahnaf that say Qira’ah behind Imam makes one’s salah fasid.

It is narrated that Ali, Jabir, Aishah, Ibn Mass’ud that they recited Fatihah behind Imam in Asr and Dhuhur, as in Juzz and Kitab Qira’ah, and it is mentioned that ibn umar did not read in Jahri case ( Juzz and kitab Qira’ah)

Ibn Khaythama said “ I asked Said ibn Jubayr if I should recite behind Imam and he said yes, even if you listen to his recitation ( Juzz of Bukhari, Kitab Qiraat, and ibn Hajar said in Nataij that this athar is Sahih, according to Imam Al Kalam)

Makhul says “ When the Imam recites loudly, and if he does saktah, recite silently, and if he does not stop, recite before him, with him or after him, but do not leave it in any case” ( Sunan Abu Dawud, Kitab Qiraat, Sunan Kubra)

Hassan basri “ Recite fatihatal Kitab in all your prayers in your nafs” ( Kitab Qiraah, Sunna Kubra) also fromn him in ibn Abi Shaybah with a sahih sanad.

Urwah ibn Zubayr says “ My children when Imam does saktah recite, and when he recites loudly remain quiet, and the salah where Fatihatul Kitab is not read is uncomplete wether it is obligatory or suragatory » Juzz Bukhari

Mujahid said « If one does not recite Fatihah behind Imam, prayer should be repeaed” ( Juzz de Bukhari) ( as there is ikhtilaf in this case, shaykh Muhammad Gondahlwi salah is accepted in all cases insha Allah)

It is narrated that Zuhri, Said ibn Mussayab that they read as ibn Umar behind Imam in Thuhur and Asr ( Juzz and Kitab Qira’ah

Insha Allah an answer of Ahnaf's dalil and the hadith brought by Allamah Albani to justify abrogation

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:46 pm 

Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:16 am
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Location: France
Some dalil of Ahnaf and other

The Ayat « When the Quran is recited, listen and make silence”

Fakhrudin Razi said this Ayat is adressed to kafir who made noise during Quran’s recitation so people do not hear it. Luknawi opposed to this and tried to show this Ayat was revealed for Salah, but the Athars he showed have been weakened by Mubarakpuri in his Tahqiq Kalam. They are all munqati, Mursal or have weak narrators. Zuhri used this Ayat to show that when the Imam recites loudly the muqtadi should listen, but he did not mentioned that the Ayah was revealed for this purpose.

If this Ayat is revealed for Salah, then the order to recite Fatihah is khas and the order to keep silence during Quranic recitation is general as said by Nurpuri in his Ahkam wa Masail. As the order to keep silence in khutbah is general but the order to read two rak’a is specific and is an exception to the general order to keep silence.

Morever Ahnafs recite two sunnah of fajr in edje of the Mosque when Imam starts Jama’ah, when they think thay can cacth the Jama’ah later, and this is forbidden by many marfu’ hadith in sahih, but they follow some atahrs of sahabah reported by Tahawi and quoted in Athar Sunnan, and many of them are weak, and those sahih are not a prove against marfu’ hadith.

But why do Hanafi not keep silence and listen, instead they recite in corner of Mosque and read two quick Sunnah ? ( I wonder if one has time in this time to do all Itminan, but this is also not fardh for them, and every body can see in Ahnaf mosque to the level that even their Imam have to remind usually people to have itminan and rest a little after ruku’s and between sajdah)

In the book of Hanafi Usul, Nur ul Anwar and others, it is shown that Ihtijaj with this Ayat is saqit because of the Ayat “ Read what is easy for you from the Quran”, and we should turn to the Sunnah.

And Gondahlwi said Sahabah recited after this ayat, and this Ayat came in Mekkah while the forbiddance to speak in Salah came later with the Ayah “ Qumu Lillahi Qanitin”

And Shaykh Albani did not use this Ayat to show abrogation.

Hadith of Muslim : Abu Mussa Al Ash’ari from Prophet saw “ When you pray make your saf straight, and one of you should make Imam, when he makes takbeer do takbeer, and when he recites keep silence”

In Abu Dawud, Nassai and ibn majah, from Abu Hurayra « The Imam is instored to be followed, when he does Takbeer do takbeer, and when he recites keep silence”

It should be noted that the hadith does not specify wether the Imam recites loudly or silently, so Ayni Hanafi said this hadith is a prove against Shafi’I and Malik, and during recitation wether Jahri or sirri, muqtadi should keep silence( umdatul Qari). And shaykh Albani uses this hadith only for jahri case.

Mubrakpuri said the hadith of Muslim has Qatadah who is Mudallis, and Bukhari in his Juzz that Qatadah does not mention istima’ in this hadith. Bukhari, Abu dawud, Zuhli, Yahya ibn Ma’in, Hakim, daraqutni, ibn Khuzayma, Abu Hatim, Bayhaqi all ruled that the addition “ When the Imam recites keep silence” is weak. And Muslim, Ahmad, Mundhiri considere this zyadah as sahih. Imam Nawawi mentions the ikhtilaf on this version and shows that many salaf sais this addition is ghayr mahfuz.

Morever Sulayman Tamimi who narrates from Qatadah is also mudallis and he does not mention listening from Qatadah as said by Bukhari, and all other who reported from Qatadah did not sau these words as Hisham, Said, Ma’mar, Abu ‘Awanah, Hajjaj ibn Hajjaj, Abban ibn Yazeed and Ubdaydah.

De plus, Sulayman Tamimi qui rapporte cela de Qatadah est aussi Mudalis et il ne stipule pas l’écoute de Qatadah comme le dit Bukhari, et tous les autres qui ont rapporté cela de Qatadah n’ont pas cite cela, comme Hisham, Said, Ma’mar, Abu Awanah, Hajaj ib Hajaj. Aban ibn Yazid et Ubaydah.

Ahnafs could not find any Mutabi’at for this hadith, they bring a narrator accused of lying and Nimawi quotes a Ubaydah without doing Ta’in of who he is. So he is majhul.

Abu Dawud in his sunnan said this addition is a wahm of Taymi.

The hadith of Abu Hurayra has Muhamad ibn ‘Ajlan who is also Mudallis. Abu Hatim as mentioned in kitab Qira’ah said this adition is among Takhalit of ibn Ajlan. Ibn hajar said on him “ He was spoken because of his Hifz” and Dhahabi said “ Ahmad and ibn Ma’in said thiqah, and others sou al hifz ( bad memorisation). And this hadith of Abu Hurayar is reported by others who did not add these words showing it is a mistake of ibn Ajlan.

And Mubarakpuri has shown to Ahnafs that according to their rules, this hadith is abrogated as Abu hurayara acted contrary to this hadith as we see in hadith of khidaj and in juzz ( In fact Ahnaf’s false rules are only used when they suit Ahnaf, not when they are against them, they never accept mursal hadith against their fiqh )

Then Mubarakpuri said that is this addition of Muslim is sahih, according to the madhab of muhaditheen then we should do tatbiq between this hadith and others, and the order to keep silence would be for after recitation after Fatihah. Its order is mentioned apart, and the order of keeping silence does not specifically mention it includes Fatihah also.

Bayhaqi mentions another isnad from Anas, and only one student of Zuhri mentions this addition, while Malik, Ma’mar, Layth, Yunus and Sufyan do not report this and Bayhaqi said “ Ma’mari is alone reporting this kind of munkirah” and even the shaykh of Ma’mari does not mention this zyadah, showing it is shaadh.

Second hadith : Abu Hurayra narrates that Prophet saw after a prayer in which he recited loudly said “ Did any of you recited with me” and a man said “ yes me Ya Rasullallahi saw” and Rasulullahi said “ I said, what Happened to me ? I am disputed in QUran” and people stopped to recite in the salah the Prophet saw recited loudly when they heard this. ( Malik, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Nassai, Ibn Majah, declared sahih by Shaykh Albani)

Gondhalwi says what is forbiden here is recitation behind Imam loudly and it is this one that conflicts ( Tanaza’a) with the recitation of the Imam, and the recitation in one’s nafs does not conflict and disturbs the Imam.

And the addition « and people stopped to recite ...” is not from Abu hurayara but from from Zuhri, as shown by Mubarakpuri.

Abu Dawud said he heard entendu Muhamad ibn Yahya ibn Faris saying this addition is from Zuhri. Bukhari said in his tarikh that it is the word of Zuhri, and he said in his Juzz “ This sentence is from Zuhri, Hassan ibn sabah said that Mubashar recited this hadith and Awza’I said this sentence is from Zuhri”

And in Sunan Kubra, Awzai said at the end of the hadith « Zuhri said, this is a nasihah for muslims, that is why they did not recite »

Other words about these words being that if Zuhri, Zuhri said these words silently and Sufyan asked what Zuhri said and Ma’amar told him ( what Zuhri said) ( Kitab Qira’at of Bayhaqi)

And Layth ibn Sa’d and Juray have taken these words from the hadith.

And in Abu Dawud, only one shaykh among five of Abu Dawud mentioned this from Abu Hurayara and others said this without attributing that to him.

Also Abder Rahman ibn narrates this sentence outside the hadith, and Abu dawud based on this to say that these words are mudraj.

Mubarakpuri said that the words of Zuhri are mursal, so weak. He was not present at that time.

Other hadith : Tahawi narrates a hadith from Abdallah, they read behind the Prophet saw and he said “ You mixed me in Quran” ( Khallatum) ( Sharh Ma’ani Al Athar)

But this dalil is against Ahnaf, as in many versions of this hadith it is specified that Sahabah were reciting loudly ( Bil jahr) as in itab Qira’ah and Juzz and other from Ibn Mas’ud that the Prophet saw said to people who recited Quran with loud voice, you mixed me in Quran”

And Bayhaqi said “ This is also for reciting loudly, and we deny also for the muqtadi to recite loudly” ( Kitab Qiraat)

Another Hadith from Muslim where Imran ibn Husayn narrates that Prophet was imam for them in Thur or Asr and he said “ Who recited behind me among you Sabih Isma Rabbika Al A’la ?” and a man said “ Me and I did not desire by it only good”, I know some dispute with me ( in recitation)”

It is also loud recitation, as the Prophet saw could not hear if it was in their nafs. Imam Nawawi said in its sharh “ The refusal of the Prophet saw is for Jahr ( Loud recitation) or raising the voice, as another can listen to it, and not refusal of Qira’ah”

Bayhaqi said the same in his kitab Qira’ah, Ibn Abdel Barr said according to tahqiq Kalam that this hadith do not profit to kufis, and he mentions that Abu Hurayra said to read in one’s nafs, so this is refusal of loud recitation not of recitation.

We see in these hadith that forbidance is for Tanazzu’un ( dispute, conflict) and nor recitation in one’s nafs. The words of Zuhri are mudraj, mursal so weak. The Prophet saw clearly said there is no salah without Fatihah’s recitation. Abu Hurayara told to recite behind Imam in nafs, as Ubadah and others. There is on clear hadith sahih forbidding muqtadi to recite behind Imam as said by Luknawi, and no clear sahih hadith abrogating this like “ Before I used to order you to recite behind Imam now do not and listen”

Next Hadith of Jabir from Prophet saw “ The one who has an Imam, the recitation of Imam is his recitation” ( Ibn Majah)

The sanad of this hadith has Jabir Ju’fi who is accused of lie. Imam Abu Hanifah said he did not see greater liar than him as mentioned by Zela’I in nasb p 245, and Sindi in his hashya ibn Majah mentioned words from Majma Zawaid that in isnad there is Jabir Ju’fi Kazzab ( great liar).

Ibn Hajar says in Fath Al Bari vol 1 p 415 “ the people who forbade in mutlaq way recitation behind Imam as Ahnafs, their prove is Man Kana lahu Imamun, and this hadith is weak for Hufaz and Daraqutni and others have shown his turuqs and defects”

In Talkhis Al Habir vol 1 p 20, he says « The hadith man kana lahu Imamun is known through Jabir and is reported from a jam’ah of Sahabah and all deifferent ways of this hadith are ma’lul ( defectuous)

Ibn Kathir says in his tafseer after quoting the view reported in Musnad of Ahmad « This hadith is reported with different ways and none is sahih from the Prophet saw » ( vol 1 p 20)

Ibn Jawzi says the same in Al ‘Ilal al Mutunayah according to Ghayth Al Ghamam p 133

Manawi says in the sharh of jami Shaghir “ Mughlatai said in his Sharh of ibn Majah that Daraqutni, Bayhaqi and others have weakened this hadith »

Imam Bukhari says in his Juzz p 5 “ This Khabar is not established in the eyes of people of Ilm from Hijaz and Iraq and others, because it is mursal and munaqti’ »

Mubarakpuri says if someone says Layth ibn abi Sali follows Jabir Ju’fi, then the answer is that at the end of his life he mixed, and was abandoned. Ibn Hajar says in Taqrib “ Saduq, had ikhtila later and we could not make distinction in his hadith so he was abandoned”

If someone says que Muhamad ibn Hassan via Abu Hanifah narrates this hadith, and Ayni says this hadith is Sahih, then the answer is that Muhammad narrating from other than Malik is weak and Abu Hanifah is weaken by Nassa’I, Bukhari, Daraqutni, and others for his sou al Hifz and the ta’dil of ibn Ma’in and ibn madini is worthless towards this jarh Mufassar.

And Bayhaqi and ibn ‘Adi say that Shubah, Thawri, Ibn ‘ are more hafiz in their times and they narrated this hadith in ursal way, and Abu Hanifah is alone in reporting in mutasil way. He opposed a jama’ah of huffaz, so even if he was not weak he opposed a group of more ahfiz than him, and it would be shadh.

Ibn Adi says “ Abu Hanifah added Jabir ibn Abdillah, and Jarir, both Sufyan, Abul Ahwas, Shubah, Zaidah, Zuhayr, Abu Awanah, ibn Abi Layla, Qays et Sharik and others have narrated this hadith in mursal way »

If someone says Hassan ibn Amarah follows Abu Hanifah in reporting in continuous way, the answer is that he is matruk and ibn Madini accused of lie.

Daraqutni says “ Noone reported the hadith man kana lahu imamun from Musa ibn Abi Aishah except Abu Hanifa and Hassan ibn Amarah, and they are both weak” (Sunan p 123)

Ibn Humam says in his Fath Qadeer that Ahmad ibn mani’ in his Musnad has Sufyan and Shareek also reporting in continuous way, and the hadith is sahih according to the conditions of both shaykh. And in musnad Abd ibn Humayd, he quotes Abu Zubayr narrating in continuous way and the isnad is sahih according to conditions of Muslim”

Mubarakpuri asked hos it was possible that Hufaz have all mentioned Sufiyan, Sharik, Jarir and others narrating in Mursal way, and even Hanafi Muhadith did not find these narrations while they had these nuskhah. Ibn Hummam is alone in reporting this.

Mubarakpuri checked in Nuskha of ibn Humayd that Imam Athimabadi had, and he saw Jabir Ju’fi in the sanad between Hassan ibn Salih and Abu Zubayr. So there is a mistake of copist in the nuskh of ibn Humam, or he missed that link.

He did not find nushka of Ahmad ibn mani’, but he belives if it is as Ibn Humam says, this is also a mistake of copist, as no Salaf and khalaf narrates this except ibn Humam in his Fath Qadir.

Then there is hadith of ibn Abi Shaybah, but it is also weak as he has a mudallis who does not mention listening, and other people who have narrated this hadith have included Jabir Ju’fi, as Tahawi, Daraqutni and ibn Majah.

So the turuqs of this hadith have liars, weak narrators, tadlees, and irsal. And Hufaz have confirmed that all ways are ma’lul.

And the matn of the hadith does not forbid recitation behind Imam, it just shows that the qira’ah of the Imam is enough for his followers, he does not profit Ahnaf for they saying Makruh Tahrimi. Ibn humam said this hadith is a dalil for Makruh tahrimi, and Luknawi answered him « This hadith shows kifayah and not tahreem »

And except hanafi every body recites in sirri case.

Shaykh Albani follows shaykhul Islam in his declaring this hadith Hassan because of different ways, and he restrict this toJahri case, and in sirri the muqtadi should recite.

And Mubarakpuri said if this hadith was to be hassan or sahih, then we can do tatbiq that it is for after Fatihah, as it is not clearly mentionned that the Fatihah of the Imam is enough for followers.

Fabricated Hadith “ The one who recites behind Imam, his mouth is filled with fire »

Imam Luknawi said in Imam AL kalam that all ahadith with this meaning are weak and fabricated. Mubarakpuri and others have shown its weakness.

Also Ayni and Sarkhasi have mentionned that many Sahabah were forbiding to recite behind Imam, amoin them Abu bakr, Umar, Ali, three Abaadillah, with a anrrator accusing of lying.

They also say than more than 80 Sahabah forbade this without Isnad. Mubarakpuri was not surprised for Sarkhasi because he is a Faqih, but the case of Ayni saying this kind of thing without sanad is shoking. Luknawi also criticised him for that.

Ahnafs also tell that in final sickness of Prophet saw, he saw came while Abu Bakr was reciting, and he became Imam taking from where Abu Bakr left ( Ibn Majah, Misnad Ahmad, Sharh Ma’ani Athar de Tahawi)

And this according to them shows that Salah without Fatihah is valid, as this hadith does not say that the Prophet read Fatihah again.

Mubarakpuri said these ahadiths are weak and oppose ehat is reported in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim who both say this was in salah Thuhur, cancelling dalil of Ahnafs. How could Prophet saw know where Abu Bakr stopped and how could Sahabah know Prophet saw did not read Fatihah.

And Ahnaf also had problem how Prophet saw prayed a naqis prayer needing sajdah Sahw according to them. They had to invent that his listening to Abu Bakr replaced his recitation, so the Prophet saw’ s prayer was not naqis.

Mubarakpuri said it is not proven the Prophet listened first as Muqtadi then became Imam, this is impossible that Abu Bakr remained so much time as Imam knowing the Prophet saw is behind him.

And Ahnaf also say this action is restricted to the Prophet saw, if someone comes now and replaces Imam, and Imam becomes muqtadi, it is forbidden. So our answer is the same, the Prophet saw not praying Fatihah for the sake of discussion, then it is restricted to the Prophet saw, and other cannot do it.

And it is proven that this salah was that of Thuhur in sahih, so how could Prophet saw listen to Abu bakr’s Fatihah.

How they have to interpret to give victory to their madhab.

So this is the end of this discussion where I have quoted the words of Mubarakpuri, Irshadul haqq, and others,

There are clear words showing the qira’ah is wajib for Muqtadi, Abu Hurarya also undertsood as that saying to recite in Nafs. Shaykh Albani also agreed it was Wajib, and the hadith brought for abrogation are all disputable, there is none clear. So for me it is better to take what is clearly established, and in both Sahih we have that there is no salah for the one who does not recite Fatihah.

And there is also another hadith of Muslim in which Fatihah is refered as Salah, the hadith that Allah divided the prayer in two parts, when the slave says Al hamdulilah li rabbil Almani Allah says My slave praised me, when he says Ar Rahman Ar raheem, Allah answers him with some other words, when he says Maliki Yawmi din, Allah answers him also, when he says I’yaka Na’budu yaka Nasta’in Allah says this si between me and my slave, and for the last two ayats Allah gives another answer.

So this hadith first said Allah divides the salah in two, then mentioned that when the Musalli sayd Ayats of Fatihah then Allah answers him. So it means Fatihah has been refered as Prayer.

So it would mean that the Muqtadi should also recite behind Imam.

Allah knows best

As for people following Malik, Albani, Ibn Taymiyah, Ahmad, Tirmidhi, ibn Mubarak and others, there is no problem as they have also some hadith and many sahabas and tabi’is were on this madhab. But the safer ann closest to clear hadith is to recite. Allah knows best

As for hanafi, then they should at leats follow words of Muhammad ibn Hassan, and ibn Muaarak said, as reported in tirmidhi, that he has not seen anybody not reciting behind Imam except Kufis.

So Ahnaf like to quote the hadith that Hand of Allah is upon Jama’ah, why are they follwing only people of kufah opposing all other fuqahas of the world.

And they should definitively stop quoting fabricated hadith, and there saying that reciting behind Imam makes salah Fasid as it is insulting Sahabah and tabi’is that did that.

Also Safdar Khan should make tawbah for his lies, and Ta'asub well known, He is opposing major Hanafi muhadith in his verdict and even major muhadith of deoband like Anwar Shah Kashmiri and others. How people of deoband follow his book instead of Anwar Shah whi is more faire and more knoledgeable than him. and the words of Luknwi and Shah Waiullah who are most just Ahnaf I saw are clear against AHnaf

May Allah protect us from the sickness of taqleed

Salat wa Salam al Nabi saw

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